…orders retrialForty-six-year-old Andre Hetsberger, a former cameraman, is now expected to face another trial at the Demerara High Court in relation to rape charges for which he was convicted of in 2016. This ruling was handed down by Appeal Judges Chief Justice Roxanne George-Wiltshire, Dawn Gregory, and Rishi Persaud, who on Wednesday set aside the conviction and ordered a retrial.Andre HetsbergerHetsberger was found guilty by a mixed 12-member jury after being on trial for the offence before Justice Navindra Singh in 2016.After the unanimous guilty verdict was delivered, Hetsberger was sentenced to serve 25 years imprisonment for the offence. Hetsberger, nevertheless, maintained his innocence and filed an appeal.Attorney Dexter Todd appealed on the grounds that the sentence was severe and the guilty verdict is not in accordance with the evidence, since it (the verdict) could be supported by same.As a result of Todd’s arguments, the Appeal Court had now instructed that the matter be set to be heard at the next sitting of the Demerara Assizes at the Demerara High Court on the basis that unfavourable evidence was allowed to be presented throughout the trial.According to media reports, on October 17, 2014, he allegedly engaged in digital penetration with a 13-year-old. He was also accused of forcing the child to engage in fellatio (oral sex) with him.In January of 2015, Hetsberger was charged for the offence and appeared before Magistrate Fabayo Azore at the Georgetown Magistrates’ Courts. He was released on $300,000 bail but was later committed to stand trial at the High Court.It was until 2016 that Hetsberger was convicted and sentenced for the offence. Hetsberger still remains incarcerated pending an application for High Court bail.
Fiorentina winger rules out Chelsea return
1 Mohamed Salah in action for Chelsea Fiorentina winger Mohamed Salah has revealed he has no plans to return to Chelsea once his loan spell expires.The 22-year-old joined the Serie A side on transfer deadline day, arriving on a temporary deal until the end of the season.After making the switch the Egypt international has admitted he has no desire to return to Stamford Bridge, where he made just three Premier League appearances this season.“At the moment I don’t intend to return to Chelsea,” Salah said.“I want to do well with Fiorentina. I spoke with [Chelsea manager Jose] Mourinho and told him I wanted to leave Chelsea and he was fine.“The Italian League is of a high standard.”
DD Fitness: Do women prefer the dad-bod?
A survey from 2014 revealed some surprising results: 75% of women prefer men with a big belly and love handles over six-pack abs.Eh, what? Did I miss something? Has my Facebook newsfeed not been filled with memes of fitness models with catchy slogans? Slogans that should be motivating me to ‘CRUSH MY WORKOUT’, always be in ‘BEAST MODE’ at the gym, and lest not forget to ‘ALWAYS SQUAT’, because we’ve got to get ‘DAT ASS’ don’t we?Well maybe men don’t, but it flashed up somewhere on Facebook. So, what’s going on? Has there been a flip in the space time continuum? Or do women really prefer men with a bit more to hold onto? Let’s get down to the finer details.Why is it that the women in this survey prefer their men with a bit of a belly?Almost all the women, 96%, said they automatically assume a guy with a belly has a better personality than a man with a tight body. Now we are getting down to it.It seems that the women on the survey assumed that men with big bellies are like John Candy, Kevin James or Jonah Hill. Sweet, funny, kind of awkward, but will treat you like a goddess and will always look after your every need, because that’s what they do in the movies. Whereas they naturally assumed that men with 6 packs would be like a cardboard cut-out of Ryan Gosling. He’s nice to look at, but nothing much in the way of conversation. What else was there that was putting women off the prospect of having a ‘Bronzed Adonis’ as a partner?Nearly as many as 91% of the women surveyed said men in perfect shape prioritize spending time in the gym over spending time with their partner.Well, I don’t think we can argue with this point guys, can we? I have been known to go to the gym for ‘an hour’ only to have a search and rescue team trying to locate me.But, the problem can’t be just a lack of personality and prioritizing the gym over women, can it?80% of the women surveyed said that guys with great abs are unlikely to be able to relax and have fun, being too obsessed with what they eat. This is ridiculous… (I nearly spat out my protein shake.) Let me set the record straight on this one. Bringing your own food to a wedding is NOT, I repeat NOT obsessing about food……. DON’T JUDGE ME, there was a good reason, honest. (Plus I ate it in the car… ) So, what is it?Why do women seem to put down the guys with the 6 pack abs?74% of those surveyed said a man with a great body makes them feel self-conscious about their own bodies. This could be a valid reason, but what you must remember ladies is this; If a guy wants to be with you and is REALLY into you, he will appreciate your body and will let you know that he does.If he doesn’t or if he makes you insecure about it, the next time you both are out for a drive, do yourself a favour and reach over and press the ejector seat button. What it really comes down to is this. You prefer what you prefer.All the memes, motivational speeches and you tube videos won’t change your mind on what you are attracted to and neither they should.You like what you like. No survey should change your mind.#TrainSmartFor further information on how to get a man with a 6 pack contact me through the link below.https://www.facebook.com/rushefitness/?ref=aymt_homepage_panel* Emmet is the owner and operator of Rushe FitnessDD Fitness: Do women prefer the dad-bod? was last modified: August 6th, 2017 by Emmet RusheShare this:Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window)Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window)Click to share on LinkedIn (Opens in new window)Click to share on Reddit (Opens in new window)Click to share on Pocket (Opens in new window)Click to share on Telegram (Opens in new window)Click to share on WhatsApp (Opens in new window)Click to share on Skype (Opens in new window)Click to print (Opens in new window)Tags:6 packdad bodfitnessrushe fitness
REFUSE BOSS FINED €12,000 AND GETS SUSPENDED JAIL SENTENCE FOR ILLEGAL DUMPING
BREAKING NEWS: A leading Donegal waste disposal company boss has been fined €12,000 and received a suspended jail sentence of six months after being found guilty of illegal dumping.Ferrys is a major employer in Donegal.Jim Ferry, owner of Ferry Refuse, was also ordered to pay Donegal County Council a total of €30,750 in costs. Ferry, 55, was found guilty by Judge Paul Kelly after a three day trial at Letterkenny District Court.The case followed an extensive undercover investigation into Ferry’s illegal dumping activities at lands he owned at Deryreel in Falcarragh.The court heard that the father-of-six, who employs 60 people, has previous convictions for illegal dumping.Letterkenny District Court heard how officers from the council along with Gardai carried out a surveillance operation on lands belonging to Ferry.On June 10th, 2010, a large Ferry’s Refuse truck was seen dumping a large volume of waste into an open crater.Upon investigation it was found that more than 1,000 cupid metres of waste had been illegally dumped at the site.Dearn McClintock, Waste Regulation Officer with Donegal County Council, led the extensive investigation into the incident.It followed an anonymous tip-off by a member of the public who pin-pointed the dumping location to waste management officers.The court heard that at 5am Mr McClintock and other officers came across two men dumping household waste into a crater.When they identified themselves, two men in hi-viz jackets with the ‘Ferry Refuse’ on it, ran off into the distance and were not apprehended.Tis evidence was backed up by various other litter wardens on scene who were employed by Donegal County Council.The court was also shown a video which showed two men wearing hi-viz Ferry Waste jackets digging holes with a track digger and then dumping rubbish into them before covering them over.Later that day, another employee of Ferry’s Refuse, Paul Gallagher, approached council officials asking to have the vehicles back.The court also heard that Ferry, of Rossbracken, Manorcunningham, ignored an order to remove the remaining waste from the site and that it is still present there.The case was interrupted when a man entered the court and handed a letter to barrister for Mr Ferry, Sean Gillane, SC.The letter alleged that the man, an unnamed employee of Mr Ferry, was behind the illegal dumping and claimed he had been paid to do so by a competitor of the accused.The author of the letter was Marty McDermott who later gave evidence in court.McDermott claimed he was paid €5,000 to dump illegal waste on the lands of waste disposal boss Jim Ferry.Marty McDermott, 30, claims he took Ferry Refuse trucks on three different occasions to dump at Derryreel, Falcarragh in the summer of 2010.McDermott said he took the money to pay off debts €500,000 which he built up partially through gambling.McDermott was giving evidence in the trial of Jim Ferry who is charged with eight different offences of dumping illegal household waste.This is the third day of the trial.At the end of the first day before Judge Paul Kelly, a mystery man walked into court and handed in a letter saying he was responsible for the dumping.That man has turned out to be McDermott who was working as a rubbish lifter at the time for Mr Ferry.McDermott gave evidence today to say that he was the man behind the dumping.He claimed he was approached by a man saying he would receive €5,000 if he dumped a load of rubbish at Derryreel.He said he had been ordered to meet another man at a crossroads in Creeslough but that two men turned up.Between the three of them they dumped two loads of waste on the land at Derryreel.Richard Lyons, barrister for Donegal County Council, asked why he had waited until now to come forward.McDermott said he had been wracked with guilt and went to a priest who told him to go and see a solicitor.He did this but claimed the solicitor told him to steer clear of giving any evidence in the case.McDermott said he has never seen his accomplices since.“I have never seen those men since. I didn’t ask them their names. It’s not what you do. You don’t ask a man’s life story when you were doing what I was doing,” he said.Barrister Lyons asked McDermott why did he think he was offered such money to do this by the unidentified man.“He said he wanted leverage in Gaoth Dobhair …..to keep Jim out of his area. He said he wanted photos to get him out of that country,” said McDermott.The letter which McDermott left into court was red out by barrister Lyons.It explained how he had been supported by Ferry since he was a young man and couldn’t believe what he did.He explained how he went to see the priest and that solicitor Kieran O’Gorman told him to stay well away from the courts.“I never thought in my wildest dreams it would come to this. The solicitor told me I would have to pack my bags and leave town and the county because I am sol well known.“If you think this letter helps and saves my friends jobs,” the letter read.He denied claims put to him by Mr Lyons that Mr Ferry paid him the money.“He didn’t pay me,” said McDermott.Mr Lyons asked if it did not concern him that he was dumping a load of waste directly across the road form Mr Ferry’s mother’s home in broad daylight with plenty of noise going on.“No. I was just thinking of the money,” answered McDermott.Judge Paul Kelly retired to consider his verdict and returned to say he was satisfied that he believed Ferry was guilty of all eight charges.He said he found McDermott’s claims vague and unconvincing and that he did not believe him.He said he had considered sending Mr Ferry to jail considering he has previous convictions for similar offences but was conscious of his age and the fact that he was a major employer in the area.He fined Ferry a total of €12,000 for four different offences and also sentenced him to two consecutive terms of six months in prison but suspended each for a period of two years.REFUSE BOSS FINED €12,000 AND GETS SUSPENDED JAIL SENTENCE FOR ILLEGAL DUMPING was last modified: October 2nd, 2013 by StephenShare this:Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window)Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window)Click to share on LinkedIn (Opens in new window)Click to share on Reddit (Opens in new window)Click to share on Pocket (Opens in new window)Click to share on Telegram (Opens in new window)Click to share on WhatsApp (Opens in new window)Click to share on Skype (Opens in new window)Click to print (Opens in new window) Tags:Ferry Refuseillegal dumpingjailjim ferryJudge Peter Kelly
GAA: ST MARY’S GAA CLUB NOTES
Bingo @9 in Parish Hall each Tuesday lotto results for 20/03/12 DN,GY,RN TY 2 WINNERS WITH 3 Peter Connaghan Raphoe and Jason Fair Convoy NX Weeks JACKPOT€4250Tickets are currently on sale for club development draw to take place on April 8th 15 prizes in total top prize of €5000 €20 FOR 3 OR €10 FOR 1ST MARYS DEVELOPMENT DRAW TAKES PLACE ON SUNDAY 8TH APRIL IN MANNIES BAR CONVOY PRIZES1. €1,0002.LED Saor View TV… 3.500 Litres of home heating oil4.1 Tonne Coal5.€5006.iPod with iTunes Voucher & Vouchers for P.J.Designs 7.5OO Litres of home heating oil8.Laptop and Printer9.Mystery Prize10. €250 ONeills Voucher & 6Mths gym Membership Clanree Hotel 11.€500 Holiday Voucher12.Monster Hamper13.€25014.Mid-week Break for 4 & round of golf at Slieve Russell Hotel15.€5,000Tickets €10 each or 3 Tickets for €20Tickets are available from OLIVER PRUNTY 0879090376 ,PAUL MC MULLAN 0877857980 or any commitee memberAny one who has Tickets sold for the Development Draw can drop them and the Money down to Paul Mc Mullan at The Clubhouse at 7pm on Sun.Could all leaders check with thier groups and anyone who has unsold tickets and need help can also contact paul on 0877857980 and we will try and get them sold before the draw.Please support as all monies raised go to the upkeep and Development at the PitchCongrats to all involved with the club on geting the Lights up and running .Well done to all commitee members and indeed everyone who has fundraised and helped in any way it is a brillant achievenent for the Club keep up the good worku16 were beaten by Red Hughes 2 13 to 1 03 scorers for St Marys were Jack Blake 2pts and Michael Patton 1 01 good displays from James kee and Michael AytonCongrats to Raymie Mc Namee(Capt) and Conor Cairns who played for Donegal Minors and Defeated Fermanagh on Thurs Night in ConvoyAlso well done to Erica Wilson (Capt )and Zoey Mc Gylnn played for Donegal u 14 girls v Tyrone on SatGAA: ST MARY’S GAA CLUB NOTES was last modified: March 25th, 2012 by BrendaShare this:Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window)Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window)Click to share on LinkedIn (Opens in new window)Click to share on Reddit (Opens in new window)Click to share on Pocket (Opens in new window)Click to share on Telegram (Opens in new window)Click to share on WhatsApp (Opens in new window)Click to share on Skype (Opens in new window)Click to print (Opens in new window)Tags:GAA: ST MARY’S GAA CLUB NOTES
RnaG SHORTLISTED FOR TWO TOP AWARDS
RTÉ Raidió na Gaeltachta has been shortlisted for two awards at the Celtic Media Festival.The station is up for Radio Station of the Year, and Frances Nic Géadaigh from the station’s Donegal studio in Doirí Beaga has been nominated for Radio Presenter of the Year.RTÉ Raidió na Gaeltachta was presented with the award for station of the year at the festival in 2009 and 2011, and this year’s nomination comes as the station prepares to celebrate 40 years on air in April. They will be competing against BBC Radio Cymru, BBC Radio na nGàidheal, BBC Radio Wales and Isles fm Scotland for the coveted bronze torc.Frances Nic Géadaigh will compete against 3 others for the Presenter of the Year award.Frances has worked with the station since 1989 in the Doirí Beaga studio in the Donegal Gaeltacht.In 2011 the local community there was rocked by the court case of paedophile Mickey Ferry, who was found guilty of rape, sexual assault and indecent assault. Frances carried out interviews with several people involved in the case, including Derek Mulligan and Director of Coláiste Cholmcille Seosamh Ó Gallchóir, on magazine programme Barrscéalta, demonstrating great skill, professionalism and compassion in dealing with a difficult subject matter. Frances is well-known to Donegal listeners as one of the voices of the station’s newsroom, and her contribution to the excellent coverage of the General Election campaign in 2011 was another example of her skill as a broadcaster.Manager of the Donegal station, Séamus Mac Géidigh, said “The Doirí Beaga team is delighted for Frances, and very proud of her. This nomination is a fitting recognition of her dedication to the service for more than 20 years, and reflects a broad skill set, both broadcasting and personal, that allows her to deal effectively with a wide range of subjects.”Presenter of the year was won last year by Rónán Mac Aodha Bhuí.The winners of the awards will be announced at the Celtic Media Festival in Derry from 18-20 April. RnaG SHORTLISTED FOR TWO TOP AWARDS was last modified: February 15th, 2012 by StephenShare this:Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window)Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window)Click to share on LinkedIn (Opens in new window)Click to share on Reddit (Opens in new window)Click to share on Pocket (Opens in new window)Click to share on Telegram (Opens in new window)Click to share on WhatsApp (Opens in new window)Click to share on Skype (Opens in new window)Click to print (Opens in new window) Tags:CELTIC MEDIA FESTIVALFRANCES NIC GEADAIGHRnaG
GARDA FORCED TO USE PEPPER SPRAY ON TAXI MAN WHO DROVE OFF WITH OFFICER TRAPPED IN WINDOW
Judge Paul KellyA judge has warned a taxi driver who assaulted a Garda after being challenged for being on a disabled car parking space that he may send him to jail.Ghanian-born Benson Oseghe, 32, from Glentaine Manor, Letterkenny had denied separate charges in a trial before Judge Paul Kelly. Both sets of charges involved Oseghe touting for fares at or near Letterkenny bus station.He has previous convictions for assault and failing to have a PSV license.In the first incident, Garda Paul McGee found Oseghe parked on a double yellow line close to the bus station for several minutes on November 23, 2011.When he challenged Oseghe about this, the taxi driver claimed he had stopped to let people cross at a zebra crossing and had only been there for a few seconds.He sat in the dock, claiming he had shown Garda McGee a receipt for a fare he had just left off, but Garda McGee said the claim was simply not true.The much more serious incident followed however six months later on May 31 last year.Garda Damien Mulkearns was on patrol in an unmarked car and observed Oseghe parked in a disabled bay beside the bus station.Garda Mulkearns told Letterkenny District Court that when he approached Oseghe to challenge him, the taxi driver attempted to drive off.As the Garda reached through the window of the vehicle, Oseghe closed the window and drove off, dragging the Garda with him.A member of the public had to go his aid and when Oseghe tried to resist again, Gda Mulkearns was forced to use pepper spray to incapacitate the driver.The Garda was eventually able to handcuff him.Oseghe gave a different account of events; however the entire incident was caught on CCTV at the bus station and this clearly showed the events set out in Garda Mulkearns statements to the court.Judge Paul Kelly viewed the incident in court, and convicting Oseghe on all charges told him that the “evidence was clear from the video footage.”He convicted the defendant of a Section 3 assault of a Garda and dangerous driving.The judge went on: “Some taxi drivers believe the law doesn’t apply to them because they have signs on their cars.”He said the defendant had been “obstructive and evasive” and had invented “fantasy” excuses for his behaviour and taxi drivers had no right to park on either double yellow lines or in disabled parking spaces.“The way he has met this case, I’m very tempted to impose a custodial sentence,” said Judge Kelly.He agreed with defence solicitor Patsy Gallagher to adjourn the sentencing until July 18 for a probation report.GARDA FORCED TO USE PEPPER SPRAY ON TAXI MAN WHO DROVE OFF WITH OFFICER TRAPPED IN WINDOW was last modified: May 18th, 2013 by BrendaShare this:Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window)Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window)Click to share on LinkedIn (Opens in new window)Click to share on Reddit (Opens in new window)Click to share on Pocket (Opens in new window)Click to share on Telegram (Opens in new window)Click to share on WhatsApp (Opens in new window)Click to share on Skype (Opens in new window)Click to print (Opens in new window)
QPR planning for the future – Ferdinand
Les Ferdinand has told QPR’s website the signings of teenagers Axel Prohouly and Joseph N’Guessan underline a change of direction in the club’s transfer strategy.France youth international midfielder Prohouly, 17, and former Stevenage forward N’Guessan, 19, will be added to Rangers’ development squad next season.And director of football Ferdinand believes recruiting talented youngsters and moulding them into first-team players will benefit the club in the long term.He said: “Both Axel and Joseph are players that we’ve identified with the future in mind.“While there is much talk currently surrounding our transfer activity at first-team level, it’s important that we also recruit and produce players from the levels below.“We’ve publicly stated that’s our aim moving forward, and we’re pleased to have added both Axel and Joseph to our EDS squad.”See also:Two youngsters brought in by RangersQPR in talks to bring back MackieGnanalingam given co-chairman role at QPRQPR youngster gets French call-upFollow West London Sport on TwitterFind us on Facebook
Kurtenbach: 49ers look Super in rout of Packers
SANTA CLARA — Are there any more questions for these 49ers to answer?After Sunday’s 37-8 win over the Packers at Levi’s Stadium, there’s only one:How far can this team go in the playoffs?Perhaps all the way to Miami and Super Bowl LIV? Yes, there might be a month left in the regular season, but it’s not jumping the gun to start thinking about such things: Sunday’s win effectively guaranteed a spot in the tournament for the 49ers — their first postseason berth since 2013.But it …
Canada, asylum and the sprinkler salesman
Simon BarberCanada is a very large place, seriously in the market for more people. It was not, however, aching for the company of Brandon Carl Huntley, 31, late of Mowbray, a Cape Town suburb. He was in the country illegally. His resume, according to newspaper accounts, included stints as a carnival worker and as a garden sprinkler salesman, positions Canada is manifestly able to fill from its current reserves of human capital and which would not classify his departure from South Africa as contributing greatly to any brain drain.So Huntley had to find some other means of persuading the Big Empty to have him. He chose to seek asylum, claiming he had been persecuted by muggers back home because he was white and the local police had done nothing to protect him. Among the logical holes in his story was his admission that he had never reported being mugged to the police. He said did not trust them to act. Evidence of their inaction was therefore lacking.Assuming, in the absence of police reports, he truly was attacked “six or seven” times – he had scars purporting to show it – he was also hard put to prove that the alleged attacks were racially motivated. We have only his word for it that the attackers used racial epithets if and when they set upon him. And even if they did use such language, that is hardly probative of his colour having been the decisive factor in their choice of target.Canadian headline writers often play on the title of their national anthem, O Canada, when their countrymen do something particularly embarrassing. The ruling by William Davis, sole member of the immigration tribunal that heard Huntley’s case, surely qualifies for the “Oh, Canada!” treatment. In granting Huntley refugee status, Davis agreed that the applicant would “stand out like a sore thumb in any part of South Africa”. The “evidence” showed “a picture of indifference and inability or unwillingness by the government and security forces to protect white South Africans from persecution by African South Africans”.This is ignorant on so many levels. Merely to have visited South Africa is to know that black people do not persecute white people there. It runs counter to everything that makes South Africa special to all of us who love it. Yes, crime is a serious problem. Dealing with it is in the top tier of the government’s agenda. By a huge margin, the majority of victims is black.A final verdict on Davis’s ruling must await the release of the full text. At this writing, we only have the bits Huntley’s lawyer, Russell Kaplan, a South African expat who has been living in Canada for 20 years, shared with the media. Still, it is hard to avoid the conclusion that this was a most peculiar proceeding. Davis relied in good measure on horror stories told by Kaplan’s sister Laura, herself a recent immigrant. Well, there can’t have been an ounce of bias there, can there?The case might well have passed unnoticed had not Kaplan, or his client, decided to let the world know about it. Canada’s Immigration and Refugee Board, home of the tribunal that heard the matter, renders more than 40 000 decisions are year. The proceeding was closed to the public. There is as yet no mention of it on the board’s website, no press release was issued and IRB officials have studiously declined comment citing privacy concerns.Some if not all tribunal decisions are eventually published on the internet. Three of Davis’ rulings from 2007 can be found there. In one, he granted asylum to a former member of the Peruvian armed forces who feared reprisals for atrocities that occurred while he was on active service against the Shining Path in the 1980s.Two other applications Davis rejected. One was from an Albanian who claimed his wife’s brothers were out to kill him after he was photographed having gay sex. Davis was not convinced he faced persecution. The man merely “came to Canada to find a better life”. The second was from an Afghan who said the Taliban were after him. Davis found the timing of this application suspect. “The claimant made his refugee claim on the very same day his status in Canada expired.” And yet Huntley’s claim, made long after his visa expired, was somehow not so suspect.You have to know what you are looking for to find these cases. Kaplan and his client might have done themselves a favour by simply shutting up, but no, they wanted their 15 minutes of fame. Huntley would not have been missed in South Africa which, like Canada, faces no shortage of carnival workers or sprinkler salesmen. South Africa would not have had to publicly respond to the shameful distortions contained in Davis’s decision. As it is, the Canadian government may well decide to reverse the decision and Huntley will be back to square one.This is not, incidentally, the first case of its kind. In 1997, a Durban couple, Michelle and David Thomas, came to California with their two children on visitors visas. A year later they petitioned for asylum. They said they had endured and would continue to face reprisals because David’s father, “Boss Ronnie”, was a racist thug who threatened and abused his black workers back in South Africa. Their case made it all the way to the Supreme Court which finally upheld its initial rejection by an immigration judge. At least they had the good grace not to claim they were the victims of anybody’s racism other than Dad’s.Simon Barber joined the International Marketing Council as US country manager in 2002. He was for many years the Washington correspondent for Business Day and the Sunday Times. He arrived in South Africa 30 years ago last September armed with little more than a degree in classics. He was sent to cover the Biko inquest and has been involved with South Africa, one way or another, ever since.